Thanks for the article and the references Andrew. How ro change this state of affairs in America, and in the West generally. How do we get the majority of Americans involved in such a discourse? Also, we in Australasia are just as biased.
Hi Richard. Changing the state of affairs in America will be a high mountain to climb. Such a climb requires preparation, pacing, perseverance, and patience. It also requires a baseline desire and curiosity to make the climb in the first place. I regret that such desire and curiosity appear to be sorely lacking in much of America at this time, particularly among our leaders.
Andrew, I always enjoy reading your insights. Unfortunately these scholars conflate US government policy and its pugnacious "us vs. them" mentality vs. going out to US streets ato talk to the people...and the people are incredibly various in their attitudes, educational awareness and acceptance of US policies. We know this. Chinese scholars are living within the bubble of their own acceptance of a single party system and craven conformity to another lifelong leader, Xi Jinping, who is threatening invasion and bloodshed in Taiwan. Power, bloodshed, vanity, enrichment of the few, macho kid games: it's an old story in both our countries. While we can certainly accept that the US has fomented terrible aggression and destruction of unfriendly regimes worldwide —in South America, for example, in the Middle East, in Southeast Asia, it can hardly be said that China has played fair with the Uyghurs, the pirating of US intellectual property, and the relentless encouragement of hacking, spying, and censoring very reasonable people within China who want some shred of democracy. To me, it's a plague on both our house. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. China can't play the good guy on this; we're both at fault.
Arielle, thank you for your comment. I agree that people to people is quite different than government to government. I have friends and family in both countries (and there are many others indeed) who are not strident (nor at all unfriendly) as the predominant US policy position toward China and America and vice versa. This being said, the former (government) often drowns out the latter (people), and this is when strife and wars erupt. I read a new study last week by Cerny and Truex that finds variation in attitudes towards China even within the US foreign policy community, though they also document how political leadership and the general political climate in America impacts this as well. I believe that there is similar variation in China, albeit to a more limited extent and in an even more controlled environment. I also do not dismiss that the Chinese side has also acted in ways that can and should be criticized, though this is a separate matter from what America is, stands for, and acts. No one can play the good guy card, but both sides will (it is human nature). My main point is that we in America need to better understand ourselves as a nation and people because in this way we will be able to better understand the various viewpoints in China, including those that predominate and thus better co-exist with China.
"America lives in the moment" is spot on. As a historian, many of my arguments are based in the past, which to modern Americans just come across as too detached. However, to China, and countries in the Global South, the 1800s is very real today.
I don't think I would agree that the US is racist, at least on the coasts, but there is a subtle absorption of foreign cultures that shapes outsiders to "American whiteness" that can only become evident after living abroad or being part of an "other".
It would be very interesting if China became a democracy tomorrow to see whether any of the rhetoric would change.
History is definitely alive and interwoven in much of modern society and psyche in China in ways that are unimaginable in America. Living history here at best may be one or two generations. History there is centuries and millennia.
I believe that racism is more deeply engrained in America's past and modern history than we want to acknowledge. I also believe absorption of foreign cultures into the fabric of American society is a good thing and maybe can give hope for a different, more nuanced future.
China has never had a democratic lineage (even in America such a political structure is only 250 years old). This being said, if, as an American politician said this week, China threatens America's position as a "global hegemon" and therefore must be contained, I think things would likely remain the same.
I commented: Very clever and determined people the Chinese. Visionary, Resourceful. Play the long game.
I have been surprised at the number of likes.
In the West we tend to conform to a narrative and be very careful about what we say. We lack people who will lead from the front when the point of view is not widely shared. Notably, this has not the case with the Kennedy's including most notably RFK Junior.
How's this for instance:
The gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education, or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages, the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage; neither our wisdom nor our learning; neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country; it measures everything, in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. (Robert F. Kennedy, 1968 Born in 1925).
Erl, the world is at a perilous moment. In the contest between the short game and the long game, patience and perseverance will often win out in the end. But the thing about life is how unpredictable it can be. We cannot know where we are all heading, but America better understanding America will better prepare us to understand and co-exist with China (and the world).
Thanks for the article and the references Andrew. How ro change this state of affairs in America, and in the West generally. How do we get the majority of Americans involved in such a discourse? Also, we in Australasia are just as biased.
Hi Richard. Changing the state of affairs in America will be a high mountain to climb. Such a climb requires preparation, pacing, perseverance, and patience. It also requires a baseline desire and curiosity to make the climb in the first place. I regret that such desire and curiosity appear to be sorely lacking in much of America at this time, particularly among our leaders.
Andrew, I always enjoy reading your insights. Unfortunately these scholars conflate US government policy and its pugnacious "us vs. them" mentality vs. going out to US streets ato talk to the people...and the people are incredibly various in their attitudes, educational awareness and acceptance of US policies. We know this. Chinese scholars are living within the bubble of their own acceptance of a single party system and craven conformity to another lifelong leader, Xi Jinping, who is threatening invasion and bloodshed in Taiwan. Power, bloodshed, vanity, enrichment of the few, macho kid games: it's an old story in both our countries. While we can certainly accept that the US has fomented terrible aggression and destruction of unfriendly regimes worldwide —in South America, for example, in the Middle East, in Southeast Asia, it can hardly be said that China has played fair with the Uyghurs, the pirating of US intellectual property, and the relentless encouragement of hacking, spying, and censoring very reasonable people within China who want some shred of democracy. To me, it's a plague on both our house. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. China can't play the good guy on this; we're both at fault.
Arielle, thank you for your comment. I agree that people to people is quite different than government to government. I have friends and family in both countries (and there are many others indeed) who are not strident (nor at all unfriendly) as the predominant US policy position toward China and America and vice versa. This being said, the former (government) often drowns out the latter (people), and this is when strife and wars erupt. I read a new study last week by Cerny and Truex that finds variation in attitudes towards China even within the US foreign policy community, though they also document how political leadership and the general political climate in America impacts this as well. I believe that there is similar variation in China, albeit to a more limited extent and in an even more controlled environment. I also do not dismiss that the Chinese side has also acted in ways that can and should be criticized, though this is a separate matter from what America is, stands for, and acts. No one can play the good guy card, but both sides will (it is human nature). My main point is that we in America need to better understand ourselves as a nation and people because in this way we will be able to better understand the various viewpoints in China, including those that predominate and thus better co-exist with China.
"America lives in the moment" is spot on. As a historian, many of my arguments are based in the past, which to modern Americans just come across as too detached. However, to China, and countries in the Global South, the 1800s is very real today.
I don't think I would agree that the US is racist, at least on the coasts, but there is a subtle absorption of foreign cultures that shapes outsiders to "American whiteness" that can only become evident after living abroad or being part of an "other".
It would be very interesting if China became a democracy tomorrow to see whether any of the rhetoric would change.
History is definitely alive and interwoven in much of modern society and psyche in China in ways that are unimaginable in America. Living history here at best may be one or two generations. History there is centuries and millennia.
I believe that racism is more deeply engrained in America's past and modern history than we want to acknowledge. I also believe absorption of foreign cultures into the fabric of American society is a good thing and maybe can give hope for a different, more nuanced future.
China has never had a democratic lineage (even in America such a political structure is only 250 years old). This being said, if, as an American politician said this week, China threatens America's position as a "global hegemon" and therefore must be contained, I think things would likely remain the same.
Doomberg asked "Is the Chip war already lost?
I commented: Very clever and determined people the Chinese. Visionary, Resourceful. Play the long game.
I have been surprised at the number of likes.
In the West we tend to conform to a narrative and be very careful about what we say. We lack people who will lead from the front when the point of view is not widely shared. Notably, this has not the case with the Kennedy's including most notably RFK Junior.
How's this for instance:
The gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education, or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages, the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage; neither our wisdom nor our learning; neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country; it measures everything, in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. (Robert F. Kennedy, 1968 Born in 1925).
I commend Andrew for this post. It's brave.
Erl, the world is at a perilous moment. In the contest between the short game and the long game, patience and perseverance will often win out in the end. But the thing about life is how unpredictable it can be. We cannot know where we are all heading, but America better understanding America will better prepare us to understand and co-exist with China (and the world).